What Do You Think?

Hello all, I am new to the board and have been lurking and reading the discussions on single seniority and decided to add my humble opinion. A Little background on me first to give you a ideal where my comment is coming from, 52 yrs old and been in unionized labor since age 20 with 3 international brotherhoods. 13 with Teamsters, 10 in parcel and the last 3 1/2 with UPSF(all being low man).
I am presently FT dock/CDL(non-guaranteed 40 hence my name)and have never in my Union life seen the kind of crap that goes on with UPSF. Seniority is one of the pillars of union labor and MUST be honored. It cuts both ways, for and against and I have been on both sides of it. When it cut against and I was bumped, yes it was painful, but I accepted it like the person who freely signed a union card. I wouldn't even think that my 3 1/2 yrs would trump a man with more time. This may have been the case /rules at Overnight, but they were non-union and if you truly believe,accept and embrace the union principles then you know seniority always PREVAILS. Believe it or not but yes alot of those senior guys that some would deny their right to bump bid, FOUGHT,VOTED and STRIKED for the positions,pay,pensions and contracts that NEW Teamsters enjoy today. To deny bump/bid rights is NOT OUR WAY or right. In my time with UPSF I feel guys voted for the union, but want to hold onto non-union ways and this cannot be. 2013 we will be negotiating a labor contract with a very formidable company that has vast amounts experience and tricks(SEE/READ 1ST CONTRACT) in labor contract negotiations. We can not show that we don't accept our own basic union membership principles in our union house. UPS management will forever use class seniority against us to keep us divided and bickering amongst ourselves(they love that). We would lose leverage in negotiations and they would never take UPSF Teamsters seriously as they do UPS parcels. The only thing they will fairly negotiate /fear is a strong united UPSF/UPS union house. We can't be the weak link. Strength in numbers brothers and sisters.

NeedmoreHrs(really do)

I agree with you 100 percent, very well put.

Thanks for your posting.It is refreshing to hear from a brother thats not focused on what you might loose but what we all will gain if we have a vision to unify under traditional principles.Under our first contract,we are seeing work diverted to nonunion trucks.We have lost bids.We are loosing opportunities to improve salaries and start times for road drivers.This happens every time freight is loaded on a nonunion truck. The question is how do you unite the workers at Ups Frieght when the current drain on union labor only affects one area of the workforce?If all work is available to all workers by one standard would`nt that unite the workers?

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I wonder if thats why we have classification seniority for road drivers and company seniority for local workers, so road drivers would`nt get bumped? As I recall there was one standard when you changed classification before the contract -you start at the bottom of the classification list.This changed with the contract that was negotiated in one terminal with some input from terminals close to the Indianapolis terminal.The reason for the "bickering" is that the standard was changed by a small number of workers that affected the majority of the company.Where was the outcry from the road drivers when local workers got bumped?

Ron,How does that play out? If the schedule man works in a location with an extra or fill board,He has the right to go to the top of those boards for that day.This would bump everyone else down which would most likely shrink or eliminate available work for company/union workers.If you work in a terminal that allows road men to crossover and bump local workers for that day they could be affected also.Two comments,It`s interesting how those road men that cross over suddenly use company seniority to bump a brother with more classification seniority out of a days pay.Secondly,This would be the result of a contractor with no seniority and no union card bumping a union driver with service to the company.This is what is happening now to a certain measure.Creating a specific division to justify replacing road drivers would be a bold but not unthinkable move by the company.How does that out play?

How in the world the Union allowed "dues paying" 1st year employees to go UNPAID on the most important day set aside for labor is beyond me. Hell, Ok give them the other holidays if a must, but dang you hold the line on "LABOR DAY" if you know what it means! I have been in unionized labor for over 32 years and to allow some members to go UNPAID ON THIS HOLIDAY needs to corrected. While I know this is not one of the most critical issues to be addressed, addressed it should be. I have read that the company mostly drew up this contract for the most part and have to tend to believe it as there is language in there that NO UNION would draw up on their own.

~Strength and numbers

I don't believe that UPS wants to contract out all or most linehaul, to the contrary I think they would rather have their better equipment and professional drivers hauling it and keeping freight in-house. They just don't want to pay the mileage wages on it as they prefer hourly wages like feeders which is easier for them to control costs. Then they could re-structure routes where possible to further resemble feeders with hourly drivers doing 8 and skate double turns. There may still be a small group of mileage drivers (long-haul, but not everyone. This company's origins are in small packages and they are trying to turn us into a TT version as close as possible. UPS has No interest whatsoever in being a trucking outfit or operating in the old school LTL operations world that we know. UPS brought a LTL outfit to turn into a small packs version with tractors hauling pallet freight for them and I can't help but feel the new contract will be more changes and inline with small packs operations/procedures. The Teamsters will not fight it nor should if it ends sub-contracting and gets everyone back to work......of course this is all JMHO.

I believe this too..Managment is being hammered to make profits or they get the door..The people in Atlanta dont really have a handle on what going on in Richmond, at least not in our individual barns where the backbone of UPSF is struggling on a day to day basis..Atlanta looks at the revenue and either reprimands or praises the outcome.I do think they ARE aware of the contractor issue, but I dont think they are on it on a local level, they are letting old overnite managers deal with it, and trying to see if the Union will have the backbone to stop it..But you know they rather have their brand on those trucks. But untill the public starts to notice or the contractor embarrasses them, like a major youtube event, then maybe UPS will change it.

Hourly wages for everyone is possible. Runs over 500 miles and sleeper runs are payed by mileage.Hourly pay for drivers ,local and road,with the same responsibility,driving a truck, would level the playing field when it comes to wages.This could be a solution to a problem that would arise if a one line seniority policy was in the next contract.If most drivers were payed the same wage,jumping from local to road boards because of pay differences would be minimized.The only reason to change would be start times.Changing retirement benefits to years of service verses salary would also be a deterrent for jumping boards.Removing the clause that requires a cdl qualification to maintain a full time position with the company needs to be removed.This requirement jeopardizes everyones job security that holds a cdl.A understanding that if a cdl holder cannot qualify for a physical card allows them to bid a noncdl position at the next bid by company seniority should be in the next contract.Radical changes ,but fair,if fair is what we want.

I would like to see UPS Freight be part of the Master Freight agreement, it has better black and white wording and addresses more of what we deal with on a daily basis.

Eric,start date sets all benefits for workers in single line seniority terminals.The only reason you don't want the same policy in your terminal must be that someone else in your terminal started with the company before you and you are getting to take advantage of his benefit.Single line seniority is the right policy for the entire company not just certain terminals.

Eric,start date sets all benefits for workers in single line seniority terminals.The only reason you don't want the same policy in your terminal must be that someone else in your terminal started with the company before you and you are getting to take advantage of his benefit.Single line seniority is the right policy for the entire company not just certain terminals.

Except those that were screwed for transfers prior to ratification,i don't know of any contract that retros back into ones history to screw them especially out of seniority

Thanks for the great conference call on Sunday September 30, 2012 at 4pm.

It is good to know that there is a on going effort to get the best contract ever by listening to the members. Thank you to all who care IBT/TDU all the locals.

I pray that we can make UPS the greatest company in the market to do business with. We have the best people, 250,000 union members, who deserve the best and the rest of the people who represent UPS deserve what we have and are going to get too.

We need to help UPS see the need to get back to utilizing their best resource..."THE PEOPLE". UPS needs leadership Treating everyone with respect. Right is Right and wrong is wrong. UPS needs to set the pace in the industry and they can do it by working with the Teamsters creating Harmony. RISE was a word used as a acronym, Respect, Integrity, Strength, Ethics. We can have all of this at UPS if we treat our people right in every aspect. One example is Creating good jobs for people, NOT SUB CONTRACTING(this is wrong) that is for companies who want to loose (read article against FedEX at www.publicintegrity.org), UPS does not want to do business this way, by deceiving its people. Call it karma or reaping what you sow. Convince your people you do care by your actions and UPS should be able to sell this to its customers. We are all at some point and time our own worst enemy and in this case it takes the UNION Contract to make UPS realize it. IT is more than words in a contract to me, it is about building moral character again in corporate America.

Great communication with the employees is another way...encourage all to speak their mind honestly, freely. UPS leadership should be able to work within this quality and cut out 90% of the negativity, WOW what a miracle that would be!

Here is some more good communication for you for starters...
UPS has the resources to pull all their money together to dominate the market. Lets call UPS package side Peter, UPS Freight LTL division Paul, UPS Truckload John and finally UPS contractors Mary. When you are family we should all get equal benefits/pay. If we must take from Peter and Paul to pay John and Mary we should do so, if it means dominating the market to show the customer you want their business and you want the best for them. But here is the problem John took over Advance Auto driving jobs, drivers were making 61cpm at the time and John only pays them 38cpm. How do you think the drivers feel about John now and ultimately Peter and Paul? Why did Peter allow this robbery to take place when Peter could have took from his abundance to show he cared about John's drivers the same as his own? How bad does Peter want to look in his families eyes?

Mary gets paid from Peter pretty good, but Mary pays her drivers 36cpm/no benefits. How well do you think the drivers feel about Mary and ultimately Peter, Paul, and John being they are of the same family? Why does Peter allow this robbery to take place?

I believe Peter could dominate the shipping world's needs in every area if Peter would just stop robbing his family of all that he has to give. Yes it would be less profitable, but notice there would still be a profit and if the customers/potential customers knew the intention of Peter was to make these wrongs right they would give Peter all the business. Who knows the customer may even learn something from Peter on how to better serve there people too.

It has been 35 plus years since trucking was the main attention of the Teamsters that set the standard in The Trucking World. It is high time we got back to letting the customers know and the world around us know we want to bring this standard back. We have the moral character to do it! The wheel has already been paid for with blood shed of many fallen brothers in many classifications. We need only promote/campaign/remind others the standard that the Teamsters created and to support the companies that support us. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

For the LOVE of God/family/Country/Teamsters may this be the best contract ever.

Let us live everyday as if it were our last... and what would you do?