The UPS Freight contract expires in July 2013.
What are the improvements you'd like to see in the next contract? Have your say and tell us what is important to you.
Hello all, I am new to the board and have been lurking and reading the discussions on single seniority and decided to add my humble opinion. A Little background on me first to give you a ideal where my comment is coming from, 52 yrs old and been in unionized labor since age 20 with 3 international brotherhoods. 13 with Teamsters, 10 in parcel and the last 3 1/2 with UPSF(all being low man).
I am presently FT dock/CDL(non-guaranteed 40 hence my name)and have never in my Union life seen the kind of crap that goes on with UPSF. Seniority is one of the pillars of union labor and MUST be honored. It cuts both ways, for and against and I have been on both sides of it. When it cut against and I was bumped, yes it was painful, but I accepted it like the person who freely signed a union card. I wouldn't even think that my 3 1/2 yrs would trump a man with more time. This may have been the case /rules at Overnight, but they were non-union and if you truly believe,accept and embrace the union principles then you know seniority always PREVAILS. Believe it or not but yes alot of those senior guys that some would deny their right to bump bid, FOUGHT,VOTED and STRIKED for the positions,pay,pensions and contracts that NEW Teamsters enjoy today. To deny bump/bid rights is NOT OUR WAY or right. In my time with UPSF I feel guys voted for the union, but want to hold onto non-union ways and this cannot be. 2013 we will be negotiating a labor contract with a very formidable company that has vast amounts experience and tricks(SEE/READ 1ST CONTRACT) in labor contract negotiations. We can not show that we don't accept our own basic union membership principles in our union house. UPS management will forever use class seniority against us to keep us divided and bickering amongst ourselves(they love that). We would lose leverage in negotiations and they would never take UPSF Teamsters seriously as they do UPS parcels. The only thing they will fairly negotiate /fear is a strong united UPSF/UPS union house. We can't be the weak link. Strength in numbers brothers and sisters.
I agree with you 100 percent, very well put.
Thanks for your posting.It is refreshing to hear from a brother thats not focused on what you might loose but what we all will gain if we have a vision to unify under traditional principles.Under our first contract,we are seeing work diverted to nonunion trucks.We have lost bids.We are loosing opportunities to improve salaries and start times for road drivers.This happens every time freight is loaded on a nonunion truck. The question is how do you unite the workers at Ups Frieght when the current drain on union labor only affects one area of the workforce?If all work is available to all workers by one standard would`nt that unite the workers?
bigutter47....no, as we all don't think or feel the same, but it would leave no question as to who stays home and who goes to work.Single list seniority supersedes classification seniority period, when union shop companies merge, employees are dovetailed by union time first for jobs. No union time than to the bottom of the list you go. This wasn't the case with Overnight being organized from day one so single list sen. would come from company time. Vacations are bid by company time normally regardless. Lose your job or no work and bump/bid anywhere your defined single list sen. will take you as long as you are QUALIFIED/LICENSED or can be company trained easily to perform that job. While the Teamsters were successful in getting UPSF organized now the problem I feel is a double-breasted mindset by some(union card in pocket/but hold onto non-union principles that benefit that member only). This is understandable when the majority of your working life has been non-union, but leads to friction over things that lifetime or seasoned union workers know should not be.
Brothers please understand that I not slamming anyone, only humbly commenting on what I see,hear and read.
UPS will unite us truly with this next contract as they turn all UPSF SUPERVISORS into parcel type stormtroopers with not much time for that friendship with workers and our double-breasted mindset brethren will have no choice but to get stronger and fully unite with the battle tested. UPS is gonna push us harder and we will have to fight harder together for what is right.
Today filling in on the road(doesn't happen often) I noticed the tickets changed to show a time punch for fueling. where would we punch a clock to fuel? Do bigger stations road driver punch for this? Or does hourly and timeclocks await most of the road drivers with are new contract?
Back when I worked at Roadway (before YRC) we had two seniority lists. One for road drivers, one for dock/P&D.
We also had strong Solidarity and never any bickering over having two lists. Not once was it ever an issue.
In my experience, a single list isn't necessary for workers to have a powerful, united presence on the job.
You think people are divided now? Watch what happens when some of those road guys get bumped off their scheduled runs.
Click on the above blue link
Owner-operators to supplement linehaul?? Gimme a break. How does this crap go down with trucks and road drivers staying home? This must stop.Ups are experienced and shrewd labor contract negotiators(I promise not to repeat this again), who I have no doubt in my mind being a 1st UPSF contract, inserted the one-way/owner-operator contractor language to see if it had legs. It never should have been allowed in as it is contradictory language to the basic agreement. It will get overturned by a arbitrator eventually, but UPS is well aware of how long the grievance process takes and will have made millions off this, not to mention the loss of work/income our members will have endured by then.They know we are gonna better protect our work and members with the next contract aligned with parcels. CAN'T WAIT TO WIN THIS GRIEVANCE!
I wonder if thats why we have classification seniority for road drivers and company seniority for local workers, so road drivers would`nt get bumped? As I recall there was one standard when you changed classification before the contract -you start at the bottom of the classification list.This changed with the contract that was negotiated in one terminal with some input from terminals close to the Indianapolis terminal.The reason for the "bickering" is that the standard was changed by a small number of workers that affected the majority of the company.Where was the outcry from the road drivers when local workers got bumped?
Ron,How does that play out? If the schedule man works in a location with an extra or fill board,He has the right to go to the top of those boards for that day.This would bump everyone else down which would most likely shrink or eliminate available work for company/union workers.If you work in a terminal that allows road men to crossover and bump local workers for that day they could be affected also.Two comments,It`s interesting how those road men that cross over suddenly use company seniority to bump a brother with more classification seniority out of a days pay.Secondly,This would be the result of a contractor with no seniority and no union card bumping a union driver with service to the company.This is what is happening now to a certain measure.Creating a specific division to justify replacing road drivers would be a bold but not unthinkable move by the company.How does that out play?
It all boils down to "how long have you been a trucker?" regardless city or road..The company is playing us, knowing full well that we want to protect our classifications and not worry about the "Road driver" Their replacing the "Road driver" with contractors, while the city and dock are looking at it thinking, "Whew, Glad its not me". eventually they hire nonunion low wage temps to do dock work, and then instead of hiring full time city drivers they could go to temp services who have part-time drivers and have them come in and do deliveries..We have that service here were I live, it's called "ProDriver" It'a a temp service for truck drivers.When we get short handed, call "ProDriver" they send over a guy to work a day for 9.75/hr.But charge the company like their paying him 14/hr. and they get a cut for renting him to ya..Before you know it you'll have UPSF Temp service! It's how the company will break us up and beat us down, by keeping us all in different Senority classifications, you wont care what happens to Joe the RDDR. But if it was "One Line" senority, that should "UNIFY" all workers, cause now ALL our JOBS are on the line, and we dont want Joe to lose his job cause we might lose ours!!! Have I made myself clear here?
First of all peeps. the only time a person is affected in the one list system, is if 1. there is a layoff, then restructuring is immenent. 2. If a roadriver in the one list land has been out of work for 5 consecutive days, then and only then can this man practice his seniority and go wherever his seniority takes him, on iether list. 3. At bid time. GO WHERE YA SENIORITY TAKES YA. badee, badee ,badee, thats all folks. The system I just mentioned above is probably ( and I say probably) the most effecient "ONE LIST SYSTEM" I have seen yet.
A daily system would add more confusion than not. not only for management in scheduling, but for the driver and the " 10 consecutive hour rest rule" in our applied federal law base.
I dont know anything about bumping classification for a day, this would be very confusing but at bid time you should have the choice to crossover.
How in the world the Union allowed "dues paying" 1st year employees to go UNPAID on the most important day set aside for labor is beyond me. Hell, Ok give them the other holidays if a must, but dang you hold the line on "LABOR DAY" if you know what it means! I have been in unionized labor for over 32 years and to allow some members to go UNPAID ON THIS HOLIDAY needs to corrected. While I know this is not one of the most critical issues to be addressed, addressed it should be. I have read that the company mostly drew up this contract for the most part and have to tend to believe it as there is language in there that NO UNION would draw up on their own.
~Strength and numbers
I don't believe that UPS wants to contract out all or most linehaul, to the contrary I think they would rather have their better equipment and professional drivers hauling it and keeping freight in-house. They just don't want to pay the mileage wages on it as they prefer hourly wages like feeders which is easier for them to control costs. Then they could re-structure routes where possible to further resemble feeders with hourly drivers doing 8 and skate double turns. There may still be a small group of mileage drivers (long-haul, but not everyone. This company's origins are in small packages and they are trying to turn us into a TT version as close as possible. UPS has No interest whatsoever in being a trucking outfit or operating in the old school LTL operations world that we know. UPS brought a LTL outfit to turn into a small packs version with tractors hauling pallet freight for them and I can't help but feel the new contract will be more changes and inline with small packs operations/procedures. The Teamsters will not fight it nor should if it ends sub-contracting and gets everyone back to work......of course this is all JMHO.
I believe this too..Managment is being hammered to make profits or they get the door..The people in Atlanta dont really have a handle on what going on in Richmond, at least not in our individual barns where the backbone of UPSF is struggling on a day to day basis..Atlanta looks at the revenue and either reprimands or praises the outcome.I do think they ARE aware of the contractor issue, but I dont think they are on it on a local level, they are letting old overnite managers deal with it, and trying to see if the Union will have the backbone to stop it..But you know they rather have their brand on those trucks. But untill the public starts to notice or the contractor embarrasses them, like a major youtube event, then maybe UPS will change it.
check out www.publicintegrity.org in regards to FedEx. I do not think UPS wants to be viewed this way. I have passed it along and hope they get the message.
The solutions to most of the issues and concerns is better leadership. Good leaders is the answer. Managers are not all leaders contrary to what one may think.
Hourly wages for everyone is possible. Runs over 500 miles and sleeper runs are payed by mileage.Hourly pay for drivers ,local and road,with the same responsibility,driving a truck, would level the playing field when it comes to wages.This could be a solution to a problem that would arise if a one line seniority policy was in the next contract.If most drivers were payed the same wage,jumping from local to road boards because of pay differences would be minimized.The only reason to change would be start times.Changing retirement benefits to years of service verses salary would also be a deterrent for jumping boards.Removing the clause that requires a cdl qualification to maintain a full time position with the company needs to be removed.This requirement jeopardizes everyones job security that holds a cdl.A understanding that if a cdl holder cannot qualify for a physical card allows them to bid a noncdl position at the next bid by company seniority should be in the next contract.Radical changes ,but fair,if fair is what we want.
I would like to see UPS Freight be part of the Master Freight agreement, it has better black and white wording and addresses more of what we deal with on a daily basis.
Putting in your time in the city and putting time in the road are two completely different experiences. If they were the same a city driver would have no problem starting on the bottom of the road but they won't. They don't want to go through what we, on the road, did. They sure don't care if we have to go through it again.
Eric,start date sets all benefits for workers in single line seniority terminals.The only reason you don't want the same policy in your terminal must be that someone else in your terminal started with the company before you and you are getting to take advantage of his benefit.Single line seniority is the right policy for the entire company not just certain terminals.
I AGREE WITH U 100% bigtutter47...... THIS UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HAS BEEN GOING ON FAR!!!
THE ISSUE BOUT EVENING OUT THE PAY MAKES SENSE, FOR INSTANCE A NEW HIRE COMES IN N AFTER 3 YEARS IS MAKING THE SAME AMOUNT THAT A 30 YEAR VETERAN IS..... BUT IN TURN IF ANY VETERAN WERE TO HAVE SWITCHED INTO A DIFFERENT DEPT THAT NEW HIRE/JR EMPLOYEE HAS SENIORITY OVER HIM, THAT'S BS NOW HIS PROGRESSION HAS PUT HIM WHERE EVERYONE ELSE IS BUT HE HAS THE UPPER HAND IN THE JOB N THERE'S NO WAY RIGHT NOW FOR THE VETERAN TO EVEN OUT WITH JOE THE NEW GUY....
UNFAIR!!!! GET RID OF CLASSIFICATION SENIORITU!!!!!!
I AGREE WITH U 100% bigtutter47...... THIS UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HAS BEEN GOING ON FAR TO LONG!!!
UNFAIR!!!! GET RID OF CLASSIFICATION SENIORITY!!!!!!
For 10 years I spent my life running freight all night sleeping in day and not seeing my son at dinner time now the city drivers got that chance and there grown now they want to bump us thats sad we have earned our place and should keep it thank-you
Everyone has those "Personal" commitments and choices. I was a city driver at one time and I know the BS on that job. Sure,a
lot of them get family time, but they also have alot of trouble paying their bills..When a Road driver pulls up in a brand new shinny Chevy silverado SS next to a city drivers beat up 71 Ford Pickup, and this is not just 1 example, this is ALL our guys..It's hard to make that argument..You can have family time and make 800/week or not have family time and make 1800/week..Your CHOICE!
Class seniority has nothing to do with a " one list system". It's all based on "Company Seniority". If you do not know, ASK!!!!. Class Seniority only exists in the day to day operations. AND ONLY EFFECT'S Those within that class on that day.Otherwise, During rebid ( ONCE A YEAR FROM ROAD TO CITY OR VICE VERSA), lack of work( 5 day minimul per MOU FROM ROAD TO CITY), or PERMANENT layoff, all of which effect "company seniority". Then and only then can "company Seniority" be used to fixx the issue. CLASS PLAYS A VERY LITTLE ROLE ( BUMPING IN CLASS DUE TO FREIGHT VOLUMES) IN THE ONE LIST IF ANYTHING.
Except those that were screwed for transfers prior to ratification,i don't know of any contract that retros back into ones history to screw them especially out of seniority
Thanks for the great conference call on Sunday September 30, 2012 at 4pm.
It is good to know that there is a on going effort to get the best contract ever by listening to the members. Thank you to all who care IBT/TDU all the locals.
I pray that we can make UPS the greatest company in the market to do business with. We have the best people, 250,000 union members, who deserve the best and the rest of the people who represent UPS deserve what we have and are going to get too.
We need to help UPS see the need to get back to utilizing their best resource..."THE PEOPLE". UPS needs leadership Treating everyone with respect. Right is Right and wrong is wrong. UPS needs to set the pace in the industry and they can do it by working with the Teamsters creating Harmony. RISE was a word used as a acronym, Respect, Integrity, Strength, Ethics. We can have all of this at UPS if we treat our people right in every aspect. One example is Creating good jobs for people, NOT SUB CONTRACTING(this is wrong) that is for companies who want to loose (read article against FedEX at www.publicintegrity.org), UPS does not want to do business this way, by deceiving its people. Call it karma or reaping what you sow. Convince your people you do care by your actions and UPS should be able to sell this to its customers. We are all at some point and time our own worst enemy and in this case it takes the UNION Contract to make UPS realize it. IT is more than words in a contract to me, it is about building moral character again in corporate America.
Great communication with the employees is another way...encourage all to speak their mind honestly, freely. UPS leadership should be able to work within this quality and cut out 90% of the negativity, WOW what a miracle that would be!
Here is some more good communication for you for starters...
UPS has the resources to pull all their money together to dominate the market. Lets call UPS package side Peter, UPS Freight LTL division Paul, UPS Truckload John and finally UPS contractors Mary. When you are family we should all get equal benefits/pay. If we must take from Peter and Paul to pay John and Mary we should do so, if it means dominating the market to show the customer you want their business and you want the best for them. But here is the problem John took over Advance Auto driving jobs, drivers were making 61cpm at the time and John only pays them 38cpm. How do you think the drivers feel about John now and ultimately Peter and Paul? Why did Peter allow this robbery to take place when Peter could have took from his abundance to show he cared about John's drivers the same as his own? How bad does Peter want to look in his families eyes?
Mary gets paid from Peter pretty good, but Mary pays her drivers 36cpm/no benefits. How well do you think the drivers feel about Mary and ultimately Peter, Paul, and John being they are of the same family? Why does Peter allow this robbery to take place?
I believe Peter could dominate the shipping world's needs in every area if Peter would just stop robbing his family of all that he has to give. Yes it would be less profitable, but notice there would still be a profit and if the customers/potential customers knew the intention of Peter was to make these wrongs right they would give Peter all the business. Who knows the customer may even learn something from Peter on how to better serve there people too.
It has been 35 plus years since trucking was the main attention of the Teamsters that set the standard in The Trucking World. It is high time we got back to letting the customers know and the world around us know we want to bring this standard back. We have the moral character to do it! The wheel has already been paid for with blood shed of many fallen brothers in many classifications. We need only promote/campaign/remind others the standard that the Teamsters created and to support the companies that support us. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!
For the LOVE of God/family/Country/Teamsters may this be the best contract ever.
Let us live everyday as if it were our last... and what would you do?
2013-2018 Tentative Agreement
2008 Master Contract
UPS Freight Panel Decisions
Front Royal Ups freight manager Rich Ebersold has lated down the law.
Do what your told or your gone. Like...
Could you be more specific on the negatives.What are the most important changes needed? List them from most to...
F*** the contract we're voting soon and I will vote NO
also when they split up the pay raise on the last two years our raise is actually 2.25 over 5 years you lose 520.00...
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